Kudzu as a treatment for alcoholism
You’ve made the decision to cut down on your drinking. At this point, you may be wondering “is there anything that I can take that could help me with my cravings?”
Currently a few drugs are popular for the treatment of alcoholism – Naltrexone, Acamprosate, and Disulfiram. None are always effective or appropriate.
Common side effects include diarrhoea, dyspepsia (indigestion), headache, nausea and vomiting, rash, and itching. More severe side effects have been associated with these drugs which cause suspicion as to whether they are doing more harm than good.
The pharmaceutical industry has little to offer for keeping alcoholics sober. Herbal medicines, on the other hand, have shown more promising and dramatic results. However, for profiteering reasons, it is not likely that drug companies or your doctor will provide herbal alternatives.
The herb Kudzu can cut consumption of alcohol in half perfectly safely without the side effects of drugs. It has been used to reduce drinking in China since 600 A.D. Scientists have found the herb to be effective in reducing alcohol intake in rats.
Recently, studies have shown evidence that Kudzu can reduce drinking in humans. Essentially, kudzu increases blood alcohol concentration so that people need less alcohol to feel its effects. People feel satisfied on fewer drinks.
So, where can you find some? David Lee, a chemist on the McLean Hospital research team did assays on a variety of kudzu herb extracts from stores and websites and found that many of these products contained less than 1 percent of active kudzu, and thus were ineffective. Higher concentrations are needed - around 30-40 percent of one of Kudzu’s active ingredients (puerarin) is advised. Please be aware that the Kudzu capsules available in Holland & Barrett are only 7%. The tincture they sell is of course alcohol based (all tinctures are), at roughly 60% alcohol.
We’ve reviewed a number of online Kudzu suppliers, and this is the best we could find:
Or read some more information about Kudzu.
Alternatively you can try Liv.52 - a herbal supplement proven to protect the liver from the damaging effects of alcohol. It assists in the process of detoxification also, in that it speeds up the elimination of acetaldehyde (which means your hangovers won’t be quite so nasty).
June 21st, 2008 at 11:04 am
Worried- Welcome Back!
Please take a deep breath and say to yourself ‘All is well.’
I’m happy to hear you have reduced your drinking. You are moving on up.
It just sounds like you are going through some difficult times. As you’ve mentioned, you’ve experienced ‘major major stress’ which influences your liver and gallbladder function. It is very subtle and probably nothing your GP can detect with blood tests. You may feel awful and scared but it will get better in time.
According to traditional medicine, the relationship between a certain emotion and organ is mutual. Feelings of frustration, repressed anger, resentment, and irritation will influence the liver/gallbladder function. These feelings turn into heat and can manifest as tension in the stomach, tightness in the chest and sides, feeling of a lump in the throat, bloating, perhaps sighing frequently, and you can even observe changes on the tongue with red sides and tip, possibly with red points on the tip.
Herbal remedies like chamomile, peppermint and skullcap are very helpful but a tailored herbal formula would be more appropriate. I’d be happy to help you. I would recommend visiting an acupuncturist for immediate relief.
Really, don’t worry, it makes things worse. You could be on your way to developing ulcers but can prevent them from forming easily. Become aware of what is eating away at you and know you are good enough and have what it takes to handle it.
A wonderful book you should read is by Louise L. Hay, You can heal your body.
June 21st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Erica-
You are welcome. I would also like to thank Formerly for sharing such practical information and being so helpful. She is a star!
As you mentioned, you have a shoe box filled with various minerals, vitamins and supplements. The question of should you be taking them all regularly or just now and then is a good question. You are different from everyone else so it depends greatly on your individual needs. So, I certainly wouldn’t ask the manufacturer!
Formerly has been quite impressive with her vast knowledge on the subject.
Go ahead and post the shoe box list and I reckon we will work on it. Be sure to include as much detail as possible and explain what your hopes are in taking each product.
About taking NAC…
I personally would suggest taking NAC when there is a ‘blip’ and not taking daily dosages. NAC may increase urinary zinc excretion. Therefore, supplemental zinc and copper is necessary when supplementing with NAC for extended periods. This supplement is widely used in the body-building industry where it is common for supplement makers to put 500 mg in each capsule. Yet, some experts suggest a far safer amount of around 25-50 mg would be appropriate.
June 28th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Small update. I did some research and there is some good news. I found a site about two alcoholics who had horrible binges, to the tune of BOTTLES of Gin and lager for weeks at a time. They went to AA but as many of us they found it judgemental and not for them. subsequently they now found a way to drink “normally”. I am trying to research their method as I think most of us realise it is not realistic to just quit as ideal as that would be.
I am self-detoxing and gave my flat a decent though not thorough cleaning as I cannot muster the strength. I am going to clean myself up a bit now as that always makes me feel better! I have not managed to eat more than a small thing of yoghurt but will try again a bit later this afternoon.
All is also not lost as I did get a message from the guy I had the date with who still seems keen so I guess he was not so put off. Though I lied and told him I was on pain pills when he called due to an injury thus explaining away via yet another lie my erratic conversation. I am hoping to resume my vitamin regimen as well and have managed to take some SAM-e which does seem to make the detox go faster. I am however on a self administered detox with some valium to control the shakes and hopefully have a somewhat normal day. I know I am in for another night of shakes and all and still am smoking which I normally give up after a bender but chose not to so as not to add more “detox” symptoms to my fragile shaking body.
I am not sure why I behave like this and the worst part is the lying as I seem to make up stories when I drink and it is never good as it is always followed by the “repair” processs. For those who followed earlier posts I lost my job in January and then started my own company more or less and it has not been going great. Last week was the first hopeful week in the beginning until I started binging. The shame was I had a very good job with little work, and steady monthly income. I have been living on savings mostly which I spend when I am on a binge unfortunately. But I know I need to persevere. My body is dehydrated as I feel how dry and brittle my skin and hair are. My biggest fear after a binge is the damage done to my body as many of you also experience.
Just wanted to give an update as I am about to shower and hopefully regain part of myself!
Thanks for all being here it means a lot and to be honest dumping my baggage on here helps as I do not feel as alone and isolated with my disease.
June 29th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Hi everyone!
FH - I had a bad feeling things were not so sharp as you had been quiet for a few days…..still…..today is a new day and although you feel worse than words can tell, you recognise the situation and are pulling things together again, so well done for that. You could have chosen to continue drinking and you didn’t. On days like this we all want a “human pipe cleaner” so we can have a good old scrub out on the inside - how I have longed to be able to thoroughly cleanse my insides, then get in the shower, wash off the horror of the night/nights before and feel “clean” again. You have begun the cleansing process which can only be a good thing. I think you are right about the Kudz - it has slowed you down a bit, and if your body cannot manage the same volume of booze, then again that can only be a good thing. We all want to stop completely, but in reality, managing is probably the best we can do and any decrease in your alcohol habits can only be a good thing, so as you said to me last week - don’t beat yourself up! You have made some good decisions already today
So….another puppy! that’s exactly the kind of thing I would do!! if you are a doggie person, it will all work out - I know - I am one
It’s been a crappy year for you with work, but I have to say, although I would dearly love to be self employed and not have to answer to some moron who abuses my good nature and professional capabilities - I am FORCED to get up in the mornings and go to the office. Whilst I scratch around for ideas of how I could work from home and would dearly love to be able to “run the show”, in my heart I do wonder how I would manage with the booze - suddenly there it is, just down the stairs in the fridge… It’s only 10am now and I’ve been thinking about my first beer since 9! it’s so easy to fall off the wagon at home don’t you think?? I do wonder if you have yet another obstacle in the way of “control” by having it available to you 24/7?? Anyway, enough of that today - it’s not the day for soul searching etc. you feel lousy and just need some tlc.
Carry on with your supplement regime - but do try to get some food down - your poor bod is struggling enough already, give it a chance to fight back with with something - however small - can you face a fruit smoothie???
Well - good luck with the pup - and good luck with the next phone call/date, sounds to me as though “inspite” of yourself, the doors are being opened for you FH - why don’t you just walk though?
Hope you feel much better as the day goes on
God Bless
Erica x
July 5th, 2008 at 12:53 pm
Hi Karen-
Glad to hear Kudzu has helped reduce your alcohol cravings. Its also great to know you are catching on to the candida craving connection and doing something about it.
It is truly amazing to become aware of how our diet can have such a huge impact on our cravings and general well-being.
Just a reminder when counting your units consumed per week:
1 unit =1/2 pint ordinary strength beer = a standard glass of wine = a single measure of spirits
Over the recommended “sensible limits” of regular consumption- no more than 2-3 units per day for women and no more than 3-4 units of alcohol per day for men can be considered problem drinking.
All the best..
July 5th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Want to make a difference? Why not help Kudzu research?
Contact us today to volunteer for our small trial study to investigate the outcomes of Kudzu Clarity, a glycerin based herbal tincture to reduce alcohol cravings.
Volunteers will receive a free sample for a ten-day trial study and a free holistic medical check up.
Requirements :
· You must be aged 30 or over, Male or Female, in good health.
· You must have a strong desire to reduce your alcohol consumption.
· You must consider yourself a problem drinker but not an alcoholic:
-unable to have a drink without it leading to several others.
-unable to resist drinking to the point of memory loss or aggressiveness
Please contact kudzu.study@gmail.com to receive more information on eligibility requirements.
Thanks!
July 6th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Hello everyone. Well I managed to speak to my own doctor as I started to think I had written the levels down incorrectly and it should maybe have been 2.7 rather than 27 - but it wasn’t!!! The normal is apparently 5 - 17 so it is high. He thinks it is my gallbladder so has agreed to send me for a scan. I still feel so unwell, very tired despite no alcohol and eating so healthily I should be feeling on top of the world. I did notice after supper last night the the pain radiated up to my back under my right shoulder blade which is a sign of a dodgy gallbladder - so sad as it sounds I hope if anything it is that because hopefully that can be cured and if my liver is oK then I most definitely have learned a very hard lesson and I will never over consume again. In fact I am almost on the road to not drinking even at weekends the recommended safe levels and perhaps only having a few when I go away with friends which is only about 6 times a year maximum. The hardest thought for me is not really for myself, its leaving my lovely children and animals without their Mum!! AND through her own selfish needs and desire to drink.
July 17th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
When is the best time of the day to take the Kudzu? Do you take it right before you drink?
August 10th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Does anyone know the difference between Kudzu Full Spectrum and Kudzu Recovery tablets.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Bless you for your reply, I remember when you were going thro it pretty bad, and I really felt for you but good luck to you now on having gotten so far, I cant get past 3 days and then I’m off again, knowing how badly I will feel has no effect on me whatsoever, yet the 3 days I manage to stay dry are wonderful, waking up in the morning and happy to face the day without a hangover, and severe depression.
I am feeling a bit shakey at mo so cant say a lot more, just got to get thro the next 24 hours.
Anyway once again thank you so very much for your caring and valueable advise.
Also best wishes to you all
September 14th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Hi Bet,
Know exactly what you mean about the 3 day mark, I don’t know why but for some reason I kid myself that because I can do 3days (albeit white knuckle) I have proved it to myself even though I really know I haven’t as it was not my original goal but persuade myself that because of the way feeling that day I deserve to change the goal posts.
As you may have read I am now on day 2 and did catch myself today contemplating on whether I really have a problem or not hence the latter meaning I could by a bottle - just the one but maybe better make it two just in case. I spent most of the flipping day and night yesterday making lists on the things that cause me problems through drinking and all the things that would be different if I just stopped for a while until sorted my head out.
However, I managed to stop myself from buying it and am now on this site trying to get through the next few hours as it is this time that I am used to having a glass of wine (and the rest) to relax. Must admit though, my “self destruct” button is there teasing me to press it.
The only thing I can focus on when I feel like this is the next 5 minutes or even minute and continue doing that until it hopefully passes… the one thing I do know though is I will be glad in the morning.
The only thing I believe we should all promise ourselves is that we don’t ever stop trying to get it under control by whatever means.
Take Care x
September 14th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
p.s I have been taking kudzu since yesterday morning, the planetary formula ones, are they meant to have an affect on the actual desire to drink or do they just help (some people) drink less?
September 14th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
p.s I have been taking kudzu since yesterday morning, the planetary formula ones, are they meant to have an affect on the actual desire to drink or do they just help (some people) drink less?
September 14th, 2008 at 6:26 pm
Hi Sally
Know exactly what you mean, I have done the list thing too, even stuck a list of all the side effects of booze on the fridge to stop me opening it, of course it didn’t, last night i was on my second bottle of wine, and i kept thinking I need to get another in case I need it, I told myself i wouldnt drink it. I drank 3/4 of it hence now I feel like death and just keep crying and pacing up and down, cant relax.
All I can say to you is fight it with all your might tonight, eat chocolate or anything that will ruin the taste of it. I remember some years ago I managed to give it up for a month, and I did manage to stop the regular nightly cravings, but then felt confidant that I could continue and went back down the same road again. I am so envious of FH (and pleased for her) that she has managed to go so long, why oh why if we want to stop so badly we just cant do it. I tried Kudzu. Im afraid it didnt work for me. Its so crazy when you make a list of all the problems alcohol causes the list for the positive aspects is very small. in fact right now I cant think of one positive thing to put on that list
September 14th, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Bet, are you used to drinking every night like me or do you tend to binge for days or both? I have managed to stay away up until know, actually a booze counsellor told me to have a fruit smoothie - I have never bothered before because couldn’t think of drinking anything but wine but tonight have forced myself and gone through the hassel of making it and actually it has kurbed the craving so far. However despite not feeling like a drink, I am feeling somewhat deprived - like its not fair that I can’t.
I can only speak for myself in terms of where I feel that I am at on the road of alcoholism, but considering where FH was - I will feel so completely pathetic if I can not do this, as my withdrawals are minimal - bit moody, slightly shakey, bad nightmares therefore having read the other posts, I really have no excuse - so Im going to keep going and try and keep the voice out of my head that says “you’ve failed before, you’ll fail again”.
I hope the rest of the day goes quickly for you, just hold on tight and if needs be just lie in one place and wait for how everlong it takes just to feel slightly better x
September 14th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Hi Sally and Bet!
I just read these posts and am happy for you both that you are making an effort. Kuzu is really best for “problem drinkers” rather than addicted drinkers. It curbs your need for MORE not your desire to drink. I do think though that most of us who have tried it for lengthy times as well, have found while the first glass sinks slower than normal, we modify our actions so we keep drinking until that “I cannot stop now” point is reached.
The three day thing is very normal. It is a mild withdrawal that is causing your cravings (though it may be more severe than mild I am just guessing from your feedbacks). Three days is usually the time it takes for symptoms to culminate and within 5 they usually resolve. That is why if you ever here of someone being held at a detox or hospital involuntarily because they abuse alcohol it is usually a “3 day hold” because in this time the person sobers up enough to reason with them. At three days your body will be screaming for it if you have even a mild physical addiction.
The fruit smoothie is to upp your sugar levels to a point they would be near if you were drinking alcohol. AND-it is not fair but neither is life. I wish I could go out and enjoy a glass of Champagne but I cannot! One glass will mean the start of a vicious cycle for me which I now know and accept for now! Last night as I stayed in by myself with my dogs on a Saturday night (I am not yet ready to go out too often and especially not in my area as it is a party area), I watched the Coco Chanel story. They were popping champagne and lighting cigarettes left and right and for a fleeting moment I actually wanted a glass and salivated! I genuinly like Champagne’s taste so I hope it was just a mere pavlovian reflex. But I did instantly remind myself of that awful morning after feeling and the even worse morning after a prolonged “bender” feeling. It is just nothing I want in my life right now nor can I risk it as I have too much to lose, my health being on the top of the list!
If you are having trouble I think that you really need to evaluate why you have stopped. When I finally stopped I stopped smoking, and immediately started (after the acute withdrawal) to stop my prolonged valium use. I made a very STRONG committment to myself. I had just had enough. If you see I stopped many times before with bargains to myself like “I will only drink with other people” etc. It never worked. I was drinking a lot in concentrated bursts and even if I took time out I would go back to where I was. I just knew the time was now or never for a prolonged abstinence. I am not perfect and I am clearly thinking ahead and worrying–I met a guy and am sure he will want to drink but I am trying to not “get involved” at present and just keep it distant and casual. I also think about my birthday later this year, and Christmas, New Years etc. I do not want to be boring and bored as well! BUT I can only look at today and abstain today and tomorrow decide what to do.
You will mourn it and it is a friend and perhaps your best psychological help you ever had. But it is killing you. Just make decisions based on what is comfortable for you. You may well need to drink until the emotional pain and humiliation is unbearable and you have to give it up (that is what it took me). Nothing wrong with that either as this is a disease and often, like with any disease, people do not seek treatment until it is painful enough.
I do wish you both luck though and I do believe you can do it! Like I repeat over and over, IF I DID IT, ANYONE CAN!
September 15th, 2008 at 8:59 am
Morning to FH and Sally
couldn’t stand it anymore, went to bed at 7pm tried to read the sunday papers, looked at crossword, anything to take my mind off it, thank God I fell asleep eventually, woke a few times in the night sweating and that awful sinking feeling of anxiety when I remember the situation. Just reading your kind posts this morning and I do take comfort from not being totally alone with this awful awful affliction created by myself (and my genes), still feel shakey and tearful, have to go to work later this afternoon (work shifts) so have to pull myself together for that, but again will be terrified of coming home and the next few days when I start to feel better and the cravings start again, Glad you said that about the 3 day thing FH, it certainly does take that time before you recover and feel human again, but why in hell can we not remember the pain we went thro to stop repeating the cycle, if you put your hand in a fire, you wouldn’t do it again you would remember the paid of the burn, but then again putting your hand in a fire wouldn’t give you the pleasant experience that first drink does. Sally I guess I am a binge drinker, but if I didn’t have to go out to work I would probably be drinking every night, I’ve been like this for years and years, blaming every problem or person for my drinking, when it really is down to me. FH know what you mean about watching a film when everyone is having a drink and a good time, but I do try to seek out films that deal with drinking, seen 28 days so many times (the one with sandra bullock), when a man loves a woman, (so depressing), and most depressing of them all the one with nicolas cage think it was called leaving las vagas. I always want to read success stories of people who have managed to kick it (just to give me hope I guess), then you have the failures like our George Best (very talented famous footballer in UK) his battle played out in the british press for years until sadly he died a few years ago of alcholism, even after he received a new liver he could not stop, and now we have another talented footballer “gazza” (paul gasgoyne), periodically appearing in the press after being arrested or ending up in mental hospitals etc. I’m rambling a bit, sorry. I am going to give it my best shot get back on the wagon although I am scared stupidly of feeling better, because as I feel so bad now I am safe (I have been through it where I would drink the next day to make myself feel better, but at least realized I was prolonging the agony)…………….will buy some smoothies and take them to work today. When we know what we have to gain by staying sober why does the mind over ride those thoughts, I so agree with you FH about the chemical imbalances in the brain, its almost like alcohol has re-programmed us.
Anyway going to try and get on with the day, so thankful that I dont feel as bad as yesterday and very grateful to you both for your posts, you helped me get through lots of love to you xx
September 15th, 2008 at 10:48 am
Good morning all,
Welcome to Bet and Sally!! Bet - your little lot is my little lot at the moment. I have had a dreadful hangover every day now for as long as I can remember, but it just doesn’t stop me around 5pm when the “beer fridge” calls again.
I remember very clearly around 2 years ago, filling a re-fillable gas lighter (that I used to light candles etc.) When it was full, I put away the can with the liquid gas and ignited the lighter to light a candle under an oil burner. Some of the gas had leaked and the whole lot blew up, setting fire to my curtains and burning my hair and eyebrows. THAT is something I will never ever do again. I was so shaken and frightened. Why is it then that despite being awake every night from 2am (the magic hour for me when the booze has worn off and I am wide awake), and then feeling absolutely dreadful for the rest of the day with the pounding head, nausea etc. that we are all so familiar with (not to mention being so knackered because of lack of sleep) - that I do it night, after night, after night???
I have really strugged to get on this site over the last 2 - 3 weeks, but managed to get on Friday evening. You may have noticed my blurb - riddled with typos as I was so pissed. I sat there sobbing my heart out Friday evening as I wrote that - another situation with my Mother had sparked me off, and I had hit a litre and half of red wine - having already had 3 large cans of strong larger. I wasted the whole of one of my two days off on Saturday feeling more ill than I can remember in ages. I am a realtively intelligent 48 year old, so why do I do that? I know what I’m doing, I know I’ll feel lousy - it’s almost a self hate thing - I dislike myself - feel worthless, so I punish myself with drink.
I wish FH could “bottle” how she feels right now, and send some of that euphoria (and good sense) out to the rest of us!! Today I am pushing Berocca, Milk Thistle, Bananas and anything else that might just make me feel a little better. But you know what, I am also contemplating getting a can of larger at lunch time because, despite what many would say, a hare of the dog really does help…..in the short term! Oh dear, it’s a self-perpetuating cycle of drink, dispair, dislike, screaming head, drink, dispair - I so want to get off, but the merry go round just keeps on going.
I do have an awful lot going on in my life at the moment, seems like whichever way I turn there are probloms of one sort or another - none of that helps, but I should not be using it as an excuse to drink.
I’ve said it before, and others have too, at least coming to this site allows us to really view our problems and what triggers it. I’ve not as yet, reached the point of being able to get it under control, but I am much, much more aware of the patterns, and voicing my problem here is forcing me to face up to it. My behaviour is not normal and not acceptable, and in the long term will very likely kill me. That is the stark reality of what we are all doing.
Whoa - that’s all a bit heavy for a Monday morning, sorry!
Worried - where are you? Perhaps you are having the same problems I’ve had with this site? Katie - you’ve gone quiet too.
Well - I guess I’d better get back to my tedious job! (that’s another thing that doesn’t help - slogging myself to death for a complete imbecile!)
I wish you all a positive week.
My best wishes
Erica x
September 15th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
Hi All
Erica - Its lovely to read your post, I was wondering where you were cos I have read every post on here (took 8 hours on friday morning), thank you for saying how your feeling because I am now on day 3 and am feeling very chuffed with myself that I’ve got through last 2 days but having said that my mind has already forgotten what the feeling is like when you have a hangover - which ultimately puts me in the danger zone. I really hope you manage to stay away from the larger at lunch but if you don’t just think about the next occassion when you could choose to stay off.
FH - Thanks for informing me about the whole 3 day thing, definitely makes sense to me, which is wierd because it is only this time on day 3 that I have found my hands shaking, I feel ok and even slept last night which was a pleasant suprise this morning. I must say that in a way I am almost glad that they are shaking because it has given me something to focus on latter when the time comes round again, if they weren’t I would have just convinced myself that I was completely normal again and thought, ‘oh well wasn’t that bad in hind sight’ and we all know what happens when you get that in your head!
Bet - so glad you are feeling (marginally) better today, I can tell you that I feel better than I did yesterday, even with the shaking hands because at least I know that the stuff it getting out of my system and therefore I really will cross my fingers for you that you can come home, read the posts and find the defiancy that we all need, which is “NO! you will not get me at this moment”
Its funny with all the mental issues that are created through drinking, it is easy to forget that it is a drug, like any other and I believe even worse than crack, coke, heroin and smoking, because it is so socially accepted, so no wonder we are all finding it so hard to stop. If we saw a stranger in the street taking heroin, we would frown at them, but for someone having a drink, it like “yeh, good for you here let me get you some more of the drug, to make sure you feel really sh*t in the morning”
Getting a bit philisophical now (if thats how you spell it) but flippin wierd world.
Thanks to you all cos you have no idea how much strength this is providing to me on a daily and hourly basis ….and…no one is trying to shove god down my throat!
Sal x
September 15th, 2008 at 12:54 pm
Hi Erica and All,
Still feeling rough, shakey and anxious, have run out of milk thistle, but have done the berocca this morning, thanks for posting Erica know just how you are feeling, wish I had some words of wisdom like FH, but still too shakey to think logically, its going to take all my strength to have a shower and get ready for work and smile at people.
regarding getting on this site, I cant seem to access it from work for the last few weeks, we had a virus on our system computers down for 48 hours since then when I try to get on it will only scroll down as far as June 08 and no further, not having a problem from home tho, thank goddness.
I too have been going thro a lot of family problems, split up with my partner of 23 years last August (well it was a year of hell before that & he moved out last August) I still miss him, still love him, and the drinking I have to say has increased in the last 2 years, so has the misery and hangovers, in the last few months I thought I was coping better with the loss, but when drinking I make myself worse, blame myself for everything, and think if I didn’t drink we might still be together and worked out our problems, (hes a pub drinker and liked to spend a lot of time there)(it was me who asked him to leave) maybe I blamed my drinking on the stress of living with him and our problems, but like I said they have got worse since he left. You see we all self medicate whatever the problems we have, small or large, and Sally don’t feel pathetic if you think your not as bad as others, its all relative to each person, to each one of us. I wonder if sometimes we are doing things we just don’t want to do like work in a job we are not happy with but have to pay the bills, or not fulfilling ourselves enough, and alcohol is a quick fix, and then I feel so guilty and ashamed of myself when I see someone disabled who really has no choice, here I am with choices and I am slowly distroying myself. Im seriously thinking of hypnosis again, someone on this site mentioned a few months ago a place in London and Manchester that was very expensive, (forgotton the name of it will have to scroll back), but I looked it up at the time, it had people who had been successful, if it didn’t work you could go back for free………… am clutching at straws.
Best get in that shower and get ready for work.
Love to all of us, keep trying and living thats all we can do for the moment xx
September 15th, 2008 at 1:52 pm
Hi Erica so glad to see you and hi again Sally and Bet-
Bet, not only Gazza and George Best, in yesterdays Daily Mail there was a great article on some geezer from Scotland that drank himself to cirrhosis! He describes one night as having had 8 BOTTLES of wine, one BOTTLE of Vodka and one of Rum. I must say even I could not do that and at my worst when I changed my body chemistry in my late teens I was up to two bottles of Vodka per day.
You know Erica I think it was you who said you wish I could bottle the good feelings of euphoria, well I can tell you it is not euphoric, it is a relief. I am still struggling with coming off the benzodiazapines, especially valium which due to its half life takes longer. The withdrawal has many tell-tale symptoms one of which is agoraphobia and it is not easy to deal with. So I just know I am walking through uncomfortable doors as a means to an end. That said I have been improving and have had “windows” as they are called with benzo withdrawal (periods where you feel good) and then I feel great. I am also sleeping very deeply and much better this past week than I have. There is a TON of healing going on in my body which I am sure of as I can all of a sudden feel pain in my liver area and it is almost a “good pain” and I can tell something is probably being forced through my bile duct. (I also did a wormwood detox which planetary herbs also sells and that seems to have made a huge difference as has the L-Theanine, Liv-52 and Milk Thistle as well as huge quantities B and MASSIVE quantities of Vitamin C).
Erica you are not alone in your thoughts, I ask myself why I drink all the time when I was drinking. I used to wake up in the middle of a binge cognisant and ask myself how a smart person can do this to their body but the answer is not so simple. It is a form of OCD-I get obsessed by the thought and then am compelled to drink. The only thing I did that I can convey to everyone else that MAY help if you are ready is that I made a definitive decision, no exceptions, that I could not drink until such a time I have dealt with external problems, got my life up and running in a place I want it financially and work-wise, and have dealt with any psychological issues I need to deal with. I then just applied the same stubborn attitude toward not drinking as I had when I was drinking. Simple as it may sound it is really that simple. I just felt too beat up and reading through my posts lately I see I was. I see all the stages I described of Death and Dying (Elizabeth Kübler-Ross) having been stages I went through. DABDA if you recall-Denial-which I had before joining this site which was one positive step for me as previously I was convinced I could surely drink like everyone else. Then Anger which I was mostly aiming at myself only perpetuating the cycle, then Bargaining, which I think Kudzu was for me (if you give me a magic potion I will drink like a normal person was my deal). Then I went through a clear depression which I had been in a while and led to my ultimate bender which led to some pretty bad consequences (though it could have been worse which is what I realised and thus what made me want to finally stop). At this point I was in the last stage, Acceptance.
Losing alcohol is like dying for some of us. What really has maintained me is the thought and hope that I can somehow solve this puzzle that has taken medicine centuries to solve. I know it sounds massively narcissitic to think I can but I do not intend on doing it alone rather I intend on enlisting anything and anyone I can to achieve the final result which I believe frees us from alcoholism–namely to reset the body and brain chemistry.
Another thing I do is I never say I am never going to drink again. In all likelihood I will. BUT today I will not and that is because I have very clear goals.
Now Bet I think it was you who mentioned the movies, I have my copies of Lost Weekend (an old movie but a classic on alcoholism to an extent that I saw it first in rehabs when I was in my teens and they still show it in many rehabs. It was essentially what my last bender was like, a lost week!). Then I have my Leaving Las Vegas, 28 Days (I loved) and When a Man Loves a Woman-I related to this a lot because I drank like she did at my very worst in my late teens but also as of late when I went on benders. I do dislike how AA is portrayed as the cure though as you all know I have strong feelings against AA and the damage they do to the majority that go there for help who will relapse in creating what I think is not only like a cult but also a massive failure with its whopping 5% success rate.
As for family issues which everyone seems to mention–I am not speaking to mine now. I had some support from my mother originally but I also realise that my parents come with a lot of baggage and I hold many resentments and have a lot of anger toward them. For me I choose not to have contact other than email for now because I cannot have negativity or hurt in my life while I traverse new waters and try and stay focused. We have a tendency to lash in. What I mean with lash in is that we tend to get frustrated, angry or happy and we then hurt ourselves with alcohol. The anger and frustration because we probably never learned better ways to cope. The happy lashing is because we do not feel we deserve it deep inside.
Anyway all I need to go try and work and also feed my dogs! Hope everyone can get the inner strength they need to go the extra mile and try and achieve your goals, whether it is a day sober or a month or a year!
Love to all!
September 15th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Hey guys.. Bet I am like you where I am severely depressed after drinking. Lately since my drinking has become daily, mostly at night, I am just a mess depressed all the nexx day. my life is a MESS. Currently I luckily graduated from college with a fine arts degree ( cant do shit with that-plan on my masters in education next year) So right now I babysit everyday-12-6pm. I live in an uncomfortable living situation with my parents in an old house. my room is the size of a bathroom in the attic. We live next to a train that is loud as hell and worsened my insomnia. So I am not happy. I am trying to maybe save up and move out, waiting to find a cheap room to rent. it sucks that i cant save and live with my parents. I mean its not just the small room and old creeky hous, its living with my jerk dad who is nasty about my drinking problem and life in general. he himself drinks nightly as well, but hes seen me get out of control and cant stand to know i have a drinking problem like his mother.
But yeah my depression is really affected. i feel like everyones different. some people can drink nightly and they dont feel depressed the next day. we are all different. i am prone to depression, and maybe you are . as in i seem to have i mildly as it is when im not drinking.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:18 pm
Hey guys.. Bet I am like you where I am severely depressed after drinking. Lately since my drinking has become daily, mostly at night, I am just a mess depressed all the nexx day. my life is a MESS. Currently I luckily graduated from college with a fine arts degree ( cant do shit with that-plan on my masters in education next year) So right now I babysit everyday-12-6pm. I live in an uncomfortable living situation with my parents in an old house. my room is the size of a bathroom in the attic. We live next to a train that is loud as hell and worsened my insomnia. So I am not happy. I am trying to maybe save up and move out, waiting to find a cheap room to rent. it sucks that i cant save and live with my parents. I mean its not just the small room and old creeky hous, its living with my jerk dad who is nasty about my drinking problem and life in general. he himself drinks nightly as well, but hes seen me get out of control and cant stand to know i have a drinking problem like his mother.
But yeah my depression is really affected. i feel like everyones different. some people can drink nightly and they dont feel depressed the next day. we are all different. i am prone to depression, and maybe you are . as in i seem to have i mildly as it is when im not drinking.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
got cut off, sorry. sometimes i hat laptops! Anyway, i know FH that i said i was going to start the af period, but it didnt happen. it lasted about five days and i didnt take my antabuse so i ended up cheating and then right back to where i was. HOWEVER, I am ready to try again-this time taking the Antabuse. I need it at least for a few weeks, then i dont need really. willpower is enough after the alcohol leaves my system. ill probably still take it anyway. i plan on taking a short time off from alcohol, but i may take a longer period. i plan on at least a month. i totally agree with you FH that i should take a long time off from alcohol to try to change my brain chemistry and then attempt moderation. i may take awhile, but for now im going to think maybe a month, maybe longer. WITH MY DAMN ANTABUSE this time!!!
my old problem up until this year used to be drinking a few times aweek, blacking out, embarassing myself, being nuts while wasted drunk… however, NOW my tolerance is so high, that doesnt even happen! now im drinkin daily and i never get out of control anymore. because the tolernace is SO high. anyway, so im starting today DAY 1. to all of you who are having problems with a period off from alcohol, why dont you try antabuse? i am so glad i discovered it you have no idea.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
oh one more thing.. some freaky things ive heard a few times while out at bars the past few weeks. , old guys i used to hang out with sometimes at bars (a few years ago before i had my current boyfriend), theyve been like, “wanna take a shot?” and im like ” oh man, i have an alcohol problem, no way!” and theyve replid, ” Oh i know, dont worry, ive been with you out drinking” and im like Eeek. geez. didnt think people thought of me like that. this again is a few years ago when i usd to get blackout or wasted wobbily drunk twice a week, or even once. i didnt drink daily. so two guys replied in that way. the other real scary thing was i was talking to the second guy online (he was drunk and seems to be drunk often so he shouldnt talk). but he said this to me while drunk online one night-”yeah you get to drunk. its a real turnoff. you shouldnt be the last girl standing at the bar.” ive talked to him once an aweihle online. and i remember this time i went back to his house drunk, i left and he said to me, “ur the only girl thats slept over that i didnt do anything with other than kiss” because i wouldnt let him. i believe i was half naked in the morning, because it was innocent for me to be half naked going to sleep! i only remember that one time. the other night while talking to him after he told me how its a turnoff that i got real drunk , he told me we had sex. “u dont remember?” im like WHAT? WHAT? WHAT THE F**K. it really hurt me. i said what happend? he said i barley remember, i probably went limb. but im like very onfused because why wouldnt he have told me before, and also i only remember sleeping at his house that one time when i left and he was annoyd because i slept over half naked and wouldnt let him do anything to me besides kiss. and i dont remember sleeping there another time,but this was like four years ago. he insisted we did and there was another time. ANYWAY. i find it har to believe because i would definitely questoin what happened if there was another time and i didnt remember the night. the next day id be wondering what happened and harassing him with did we? but i don tremember that. so im HOPING to death he was just thinking it maybe happened because he was as wasted as me. i dont know, but it really hurt me to think i would do that because i was so drunk. alcohol is so scary as we all know. to be honest i think that was probably rape if that was the case. he said he knew i was bad drunk. i dont know i really have a hrd time beliving but i wont question anything about those bad drunk nights.
so today im starting AF. NERVOUS, scared, going to be hard, but im popping that pill in a few hours. i had a bottle of 750mg red wine myself last night, so i want to wait till like three pm. otherwise it might react with the antabuse. have a good day to everyone. wish me luck
September 15th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
oh one more thing! this weekend was the worst with my getting abusive boyfriend. he is controlling and possessive. but lately the physical abuse is more often. this weekend, and i really dont do things to deserve him to even be mad. i was supposed to go away this weekend with my dad. at the last miinute i decided not to go. i think i told my bf if i didnt go, we’d hang out. but instead, i got home from work and called up friends. went out with friends to fridays and then to a bar. my bf had started drinking and so he couldnt come drive to us. ( he lives an hour away as well) so he was fuming saying i should have come to him if i decided not go to away, etc. he was fuming. i got text messages ssaying u dumb slut i hope u die, etc. well i went to him the next day. it was a nigh tafter drinking and i felt down. when i feel down, i feel needy and lonely. so i wanted to be with him. so i drove to him. he was a jerk. the yelling began, and through out the night he slapped me ( not terribly hard) twice, pushed my forehead pretty hard once or twice, pushed me/hit me in the back semi hard, put his arms around my neck which left red marks for a few hours ( again, not real hard to strangle me, but yeah) and pushed me down on a bed. hes also hit or held my arm tight. it was a bad weekend. i then was crying screaming getting ready to leave and he would stop me and get all nice and romantic holding me, kissing me, and said something like, ” ok i think ive put you through enough for what you did to me the other night” did to him? going out with friends? he truly belives hes right. he held me and said how we have no respect for eachother and we have to do this and that to help the relationship and i have to “give in” and stop being stubborn. its all bullshit. i know ive done things when drunk to him that werent right. but for the most part this guy seems semi crazy. he really believes these things he says-its not just an attemnpt to control me consciousally. its subconsciousally an attempt. but it scared me that he fit the typical abusive partner. like the abuse, then the nice act and trying to make up. im now seriousally ready to leave him. that was one of the things i want to to do to make myself happy.
1-alcohol break
2-leave him
3-church again
i question what a therapist would tellme to do with my life. i can imagine she would say, ” what can u do to make yourself happy? What can you change?” i KNOW what i should do and i THINK id be happy. but im scared… im scared to let go of someone im so close to. i need a therapist, just no insurance right now!!!!
but guys, this is definitely physical abuse now. see i know so far he keeps it to a light hitting or choking. he def could HURT ME bad. but hasnt. but still. i know
September 15th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
Jen!
Hi! Glad you are back! The depression after drinking is completely normal. Alcohol is a depressant and it also releases endorphines, lowers GABA production and in general messes up your brain’s neurons. This causes depletion of seretonin, endorphines and dopamine in your brain as well as production of GABA and a build up of THIQ. To put it in lay terms you end up depressed after prolonged use and also suffer anxiety, insomnia, and hormonal imbalances.
Abstinence is the only solution for this. Jen in all honesty I think AA is for you, and I HATE AA and what it stands for so this says alot coming from me. My main reason for saying this is because you have a strong faith and this is, in my opinion, key in AA working for anyone. I also think it will open up support channels for you.
Now I am not “racial profiling” but I would guess you are Irish or Northern European descent on your father’s side Jen? I say this because you mention he drinks nightly and his mother was alcoholic.
The fact is that Irish, Scandinavian, and English as well as German to an extent, and most notably Amerindian (native American’s) Saami (Native to norther Scandinavia) Eskimos and all North/South/Central American and Greenland Natives share a heritage that is more likely to be born with a predisposition to alcohol. The theory behind it is that the longer any given population was exposed to alcohol the fewer alcoholics the population will have and vice-versa. This is sadly all too apparent in Native peoples all over, be it Saami’s in Scandinavia or Greenland Natives or Eskimos or AmerIndians. This makes perfect sense as who would reproduce with stumbling drunks and also as reproductive age was younger people who drank did so younger and died prematurely or were shunned. (Natural Selection)
This is a genetic chemical imbalance as I WOULD call it while others may say it is environmental. (It is only environmental if you don’t start drinking which is rare in modern culture). The second type of alcoholic is like me and is someone who drinks so much that I create a chemical imbalance. Either way, we get where we get be it by train, plane or automobile or even walking!
Jen I relate all too well with the things you said. I cannot tell you how many guys have made comments like that to me. “You drink like a lorry (truck) driver”, etc. The number of calls I get from guys I apparently give my number to, the number of times guys told me “Last night was amazing” and I have NO CLUE what they mean and feel horrible, humiliated and angry with myself. In fact as you know my last bender that helped me realise I need to stop was due to such a situation, only I either passed out before I was able to “perform any sex acts” so he thought he’d help himself to what he wanted, or I was just an easy target for a thief who was skilled in this type of thieving! Either way it left me feeling raped in more than one way.
OH and what precipitated that was being dumped by a guy I did not even like and was just “seeing” that told me how scary my drinking was!
I applaud you for your efforts Jen and think that you perhaps need more support from your family or need to try and get out of there. I also think you do need to get rid of the boyfriend. There is no rush as you need to love yourself, as I have realised, before anyone else will truly love and respect you unless your alcohol problem came after a long time with someone who was NOT as sick as you.
Antabuse is a good step for you if you feel you will otherwise be tempted. I personally feel that it is a risky medication as an accidental intake of alcohol is always possible with mouthwashes, foods that may be cooked with alcohol etc. I just never liked the idea of feeling sick from an unintentional intake of alcohol though when I was on antabuse I did manage to drink after just a day of not taking it. I was in my teens then and metabolised everything in record time. I still do as I apparently have a very efficient liver that even has compensated for my drinking by eliminating deadly amounts very rapidly (I will never know how this happens!).
Anyway luck to you Jen and keep posting so we know how it is going!
September 15th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Hi All
Just a quick update - Day 3 night - this is taking all my strength, as have kicked husband out - he threatened to abduct my son to the middle east! Has nothing to do with my drinking just that he is an ar*e with a bad temper and nasty mouth, so told him I want a divorce!!
Maybe he’s done me a favour in terms of drinking, definitely won’t give him the satisfaction of seeing me fail and use it against me.
Keep strong everyone x
September 16th, 2008 at 12:01 am
Bloody hell girls, just got home from work and reading your posts,
Jen you got to get out of that relationship fast, that guy is no good for you, you are young and should have a beautiful life in front of you, FH is right you do have to love yourself, and one day when you do learn how to, you will think back to that bastard and wonder why you ever gave him space, if you let him continue one day he will truely do you some damage, and you know I can hear it in your last post that you are blameing yourself maybe because of the alcohol abuse, I understand that depression and lonely neediness, I still feel it now with my ex, yet when I have had 3 days free of drinking I remember why we split up, although I am no angel and will take my part of responsiblity for the break up, if he had ever laid a finger on me I would have walked and never looked back because I know it would open a door to more physical abuse, once that door is opened it becomes a vicious cycle just like drinking, abuse, brutality and then sorrow and apologies, till the next time……..
Sally, sorry for all your domestic problems also, not a good time to give up drinking eh! but you sound strong and if thats what it takes to keep you off it, go for it girl.
Am feeling a bit better tonight, but now the hard work starts tomorrow will be day 3 for me and hopefully I will get thro that, but when day 4 comes all the craving and bargining will be back to drive me insane, just got to remember what yesterday was like, maybe I should have filmed myself crying my heart out.
Going to bed now, I hope tomorrow brings us all fresh hope and peace in our lives very very best to you all xx
September 16th, 2008 at 2:11 am
hey guys, thanks for your replies. Hopeless, I do somewhat think AA is good for me, but I do not want to go until I feel i want to stop for a LONG long time. ive gone here and there and then drank anyway after. I want to go to aa when im certain i dnot want alcohol around for a long time. plus i do not feel like commiting myself to everyday meetings right now. im to busy at the moment with my babysitting and when i come home i dont want to go to a meeting.i also would kinda think that going to meetings daily would get rather boring. im not certain what they do but the last few times i went i only heard people telling their stories. but again i went to beginner meetings the few times i went. i also was disappointed because im 26 and most of the people were alot older. but i m not bashing aa. just do not like going right now. today was my first antabuse day and i just ordered more online. im taking the RIGHT amount daily. so i wont mess up . i felt rather gloomy today. like how in the world am i gonna get through this. but i keep telling myself that after a few days you feel alot better mentally, and after a few weeks i remember saying to myself, “wow, i dont even care about going home and wanting a drink now. ” the only time i really wanted a drink was when i was around people who were partying/drinking. All of here seem to be on our first few days except hopeless-congratz!!!! so lets stay in it together. ill thikn of u all when i start to feel sorry for myself. u know what i thought about today? people in jail.. say i was sent to jail for drunk driving or something. i then would have to lay in a dirty room all day. at least right now i can go out and spend time with friends and shopping or whatever. im not locked up. i just CANT drink. its not THAT bad. althought it feels it on this first day!! lol
talk to u guys soon. oh hopeless, i just wanted to say that i agree with that ur a bit worried the antabuse would react to small things. ive read alot that if ur on a low dose, that really doesnt happen much. just what ive read. im only taking the minimum. it would react to a drink of alcohol it seems but not so much a little sauce.
everyone, let me know how your doing.
September 16th, 2008 at 9:03 am
Hi Jen
Just reading your post about AA and not feeling ready to go. Have you ever come across the podcast ‘just for today’, I have listened to loads of them and while I personally find it difficult to get around the ‘higher power’ part - find them really inspiring, just being able to listen candidly to people actually speaking about where they are whether it be a day, a week, month etc into their sobriety. They also cover alot about failing and what they feel about that cos most of the people that speak on there started AA carried on drinking kept it secret, but eventually something clicked.
If nothing else, there are so many of them they will keep you going for weeks and they are not like the AA speaker tapes, just a guy who thought he would chat on the phone to people who battle to stay sober.
Morning day 4, not shaking today and had a good night sleep - husband came back and apologized profusely, admitted being an a*se and begged for another chance. Everyone deserves a second chance, so told him actions speak louder than words - so we will see.
Bet and Erica, hope you feel a little better than yesterday, now I’m feeling “normal” (and red cheeks have gone less red) I suppose this is where the real test comes into play to continue each day and not surrender to the mental messages.
Have a good day all
Sal x
September 16th, 2008 at 9:05 am
p.s FH - what day are you on now and how are you feeling with the benzo withdrawals?
September 16th, 2008 at 1:58 pm
Hi All-
I am on day 40 Sally. The benzo withdrawals wax and wane. One minute I am fine and the next everything feels like I am seeing, hearing and feeling through a tunnel. Light bothers me and small things really bother me and I notice I get irritable. I am COMPLETELY off the benzos now though and so this is to be expected. The good news is that natural sleeping aids are allowing me full night sleeps. I know my body and mind are healing because I wake up sweating from a deep sleep and also have vivid dreams and have felt odd pains in strange areas near and around my liver, pancreas and gallbladder. I am, ironically, very in tune with my body. I always know, for example, when I will get sick as my right leg gets a certain feeling on a meridian. (These are used in Chinese medicine). The pain goes from my foot to my right inside of my knee then I am unwell! So it helps being in tune with my body as I know what the tingling and twitching is when I feel it.
Bet I can relate to you on the relationship thing only I made a mistake with mine, one which can no longer be corrected. I was together with a guy for years (a lot of the time on and off as he was much younger and I often was unsure but in the end we were both sure) and he was going to come with me to USA and we were going to get married. Last minute he asked me not to go as he felt he could not due to his father being old and him not wanting to miss his father’s last years (he is only turning 25 in a few months and his dad is 87). I could not stay and while we kept in touch the first 9-10 months I was here I knew it was best we stop talking if we both wanted to move on. It was really after that my drinking spiralled to the depths it took me. So nobody can underestimate the power of relationships in our lives.
That all said—Jen get rid of him! Sally-did you ever see “Not Without My Daughter”? It is with Sally Field, an old film, and I highly recommend it to you.
Sally you are now OVER the hump! Congratuations! I think it will flow from here. I know that for me withdrawal from alcohol took a week and an additional week to feel normal and from the benzos it is ongoing though I am currently substance free which is a massive relief! Things can only get better and I do believe that if you commit to it then it will get better. Just always remind yourselves why you stopped.
Jen I think if you have a strong faith AA could “become” you. I hate it, it is not for me, I think it is a cult, it is judgemental, and I RARELY would recommend it. For me though the higher power thing is a major issue (you cannot tell people to believe in god and deny what you are saying as AA does). BUT for you, I think you could make it there because you have a strong faith and I think a lot of your personality tells me that you are looking for approval and acceptance and I think if you did what AAers call “fake it until you make it” by just showing up every day for 90 days to meetings, then you eventually would get it and thrive in the environment. This particularly because, as stated, you have the prerequisite faith in God, and further the group dynamic and camaraderie would suit you for your emotional needs. I feel like you feel a disconnect with your family and seek out people that will make you feel badly, such as your boyfriend and AA may well show you a different way to be loved and accepted. I know they are mainly old people but that is not ALL of them and they do have “young peoples” meetings if you call and ask I am sure they will tell you where.
I think you are all doing great and wish everyone the best! I need to go work but hang in there all!
September 16th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
hey guys, yes i know, i believe to that aa is good for me. it will probably happen soon. i agree witih everything your saying hopeless about me. beliving in GOd, wanting to be around others who have the same problem and are supportive, etc. we all know all those AAers are not like that, but there are good people in there as ive said. and the pyschos of course. but everywhere you go its like that. so maybe someday soon. right now im just taking my antabuse and not sure where it will bring me or how long im going to stay sober for. i know at least a month. but maybe longer. i know i know, i should do longer. Its day 2 and it is the morning, but i already feel good about doing this. that first day is the hardest for me, and the next few. but i feel determined and happy. thinking about the past and all the pain ive gone through from alcohol is making me shiver at the thought of going back. already-on only day 2. lol .. it is quite amazing how when your body is so used to having it you feel like you have to have it. i was only doing it nightly but i was thinking about it so often. like you said FH, ocd in a way.
No sally, I havent came across the podcast.. where do you find that? Im not sure about your situation with your husband because I cant remember what you wrote previousally about him, but sure, give him a second chance. He doesnt seem pyscho like my boyfriend! I know i have to leave him. I dont know why im afraid of letting go. ITs like that with friendships too. i dont even think my bf is the one for me, i know hes not. but im so close to him, and he was my first bf. ( two yrs) I know what I have to do though. I just dont know how to go about doing it. i start to feel bad.. im a very empathetic person whos very sensitive and cares to much about things i shouldnt.
Bet how are you doing? I havent seen a post from you. Ihope your doing well. You guys all have willpower. I need antabuse to start me out. obviousally i dont NEED anything, but i really would have a harder time without using it in the beginning. Well, I hope Sally and Bet that you are getting through these first few days. How is your family and friends on the matter? Who do you guys tell about this? Another reason I belong in AA, I tend to talk about it with alot of people. More in the past, as i would and then regretted telling that person when we’d go out drinking because Id feel he/she was thinking “why is she drinking if she has this problem” Now i dont really talk about it to much with people, but ive made a few of my friends aware that I know I have a problem and struggle with it. I dont really have many true friends anymore though, just one male friend and one girl, who is a bitch, but deep down shes a sensitive, caring person. The male friend my bf hates. lol but we talk about everythingl. he had to take a month off of alcohol hiimself and is trying to moderate.
September 16th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Its actually interesting that there are alot of people out there that struggle with alcohol to some degree. I know quite a few. I feel like Im worse than many lol, but still, I know quite a few. One guy I know completelystopped on his own, hes a maniac in a touring rock band. his bandmates all drink daily everyday. and hes in this band, staying sober. hes young, and many others. he would get wasted almost everynight. another example is my aunt, she supposedly just drinks aboutthree glasses of wine a night. but has trouble stopping. altogether. my dad, he drinks a bottle a night, or sometimes a half. but cant really stop, doesnt have enough motivation. and then there are others like my male friend. he got bad like me, with binging. maybe four times a week, heavy drinking. there are alot of us out there. ok, talk to you guys later
September 16th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Hi Jen
the podcast is on itunes (just search under podcasts “just for today”), I think you will really like it - I like it and I am not into AA, its like an alternative meeting and I know alot of AAers on there use it if they are away from home and can’t get to a meeting. In fact if it wasn’t for the higher power bit, from what I’ve listened to its made me think ’sounds great how do I join that club’ in fact it was what made me get intouch with AA, its was only the stupid woman on the end of the phone that said “maybe you should wait until your a bit worse” that completely put me off.
FH - thanks for the congrats, I’m still having the thoughts at about 3pm thinking ‘ ah bugger, can’t have a drink tonight’ but just tell myself no and do something else.
Got to go - meeting a friend for a coffee …A WHAT! LOL.
sal x
Jen don’t be too hard on yourself about not dumping your bf immediately, you sound a bit like me in that you totally know its not right but for some reason you will stay until you can’t stand the sight of him because that way when you come to not having him in your life, you won’t question it and it won’t hurt so much. I have been with utter shits and I have put up and put up but even though I sometimes regret wasting time with them, at least when I did it, it was a huge relief - hitting rock bottom relationship styly…lol.
Anyway good luck, just reading your post, I can tell you are in a positive frame of mind.
September 16th, 2008 at 6:20 pm
thats weird, I didn’t type it in that order, but its got all the details.
P.s FH, I have seen the film, which is why he knows it makes me freak out… not to worry - I have the SAS on speed dial!
September 17th, 2008 at 5:33 am
Sally, you described the way i feel pretty much to a tee about my relationship.. hitting rockbottom in a relationship is a good way to put it! theres obviousally more to why i stay in a bad relationship, but consciousaly anyway i know i stay because of what you said.. that ill question and feel maybe i was wrong, and miss him if i end it, etc.
Gonna check out the pod thing you were talking about. Im sure ill love it. talk to ya lates. day 2 for me.. what about you guys? its weird! ive been doing alot of cleaning its like im trying to keep my mind off of it. i tend to shop more too . lol
September 17th, 2008 at 11:47 am
Hi Guys,
Am on day 4 this will be a hard test tonight, am throwing myself into work, and if Im home been going to bed as early as poss, last night 8pm, for some reason in bed i wont want to drink, I read a lot and yesterday went out and bought Clarissa Dickson Wrights autobiography (She became famous as on of the Two Fat Ladies TV cookery show in UK) a very inspiring woman, she comes from an upper class family, Father an abusive violent alcoholic also a famous surgeon, its a well written with humour and humility…………..its made me think about families.
Jen you asked how family and friends are on the matter, Well i come from a family of heavy drinkers and alcoholics, some still in denial, at this moment my niece is going thro a terrible time, (her father, my brother was an alcoholic for many years all through her childhood and mine, he is 14 years older than me), She has hit total bottom (and I mean rock bottom) since January, although I have been doing my best to help her, it is horribly frustrating being on the other side of it, plus I am hanging on by a thread myself, and feeling guilty that I haven’t done enough, there is so much anger and sorrow involved its hard to explain, she is now on a waiting list to get into rehab, if she lasts that long (yes that bad), Whilst I want to complain about the total lack of help from doctors and the NHS (handing out anti depressants, beta blockers and tranqs and sending her away saying don’t just stop drinking or you may have a fit) (I wish she would read FH’s posts), I understand the nature of the illness and know the health services are stretched to the limit.
Anyway, to move on, have been reading about the effects of being children of Alcoholics (both my parents were heavy drinkers, binge drinkers), and its our culture to drink and think its a normal way of recreation…………I have to change the subject, its making me a little upset just writing about it.
Sally I found the podcast thro Google, and have been listening intently to it, its particularly good when your eyes are tired of reading and you can just listen to someone else telling their story, thanks for that tip, every tip helps.
Jen perhaps I was a bit harsh when I said about dumping your b/f but it was thro worry about your safety, what Sally said was correct, you have to wait until your ready and sick of trying to make it work, the last thing you need is a broken heart as well as dealing with the drinking, but it made me think how strange that bad relationships and alcoholism are so similar that we have to wait until it nearly destroys us before we can do anything, and oh all that time wasted.
FH after all this time is there any chance that you could get back with the guy you left behind? maybe he would be ready to join you now? life is strange who knows whats round the corner.
Erica and Dairy hope you are both ok and anyone else I have missed
Best wishes and love to all x
September 17th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
Hi All-
Sally I am glad you have seen that movie.
I think you are all doing great! Sally you are going to get urges. I think I am a bit lucky this time because alcohol literally still scares me. When I quit this time I did so because I scared myself. The other times I was still bargaining with myself about what I could and could not do. This time I was literally scared. To me this is great because even now when I do have a fleeting thought I recall why I quit and the mere thought of taking a drink is not the vision of smiling and having fun, but the vision of a week long bender, the withdrawals, the regrets, the humiliation, etc. I associate alcohol with pain now, not pleasure.
Jen I am sure you will leave this bf when you are ready. Just remember that if he does get physical you need to get away. I also am a strong believer in going legal NOT just for you but for anyone after you. By filing a charge against him if he hits you, you would establish pattern for someone who comes after you and this is very important as to how the courts look at someone accused of abuse as well as perhaps a wake up call for him. I think the longer you stay off drink the clearer things will become. By the way Jen, Bet refers to NHS and I know in USA there is none so just so you know NHS is National Health Service. It is essentially the state’s primary responsibility to care for health needs. In comparison to most European systems NHS is relatively good but frankly I think private, as it is in USA is better quality as competition exists to a larger extent and if you want rehab TODAY and have insurance you get rehab. I support health care reform but only in that insurance should be accessible to all so as to avoid waits such as Bet’s niece has.
Bet I think it is awful she has to wait. I know all too well how NHS works as I have friends that have been waiting to see specialists about this or that that could literally have died waiting. That said have you told her to check this site out? It is far from easy to take any step but any step is better than no step. I would suggest you take her in but I do not know how feasible that is as you are early in your own efforts and perhaps also do not have the room or do not want the trouble. That said, like this board for me, I found that sharing and talking and trying to help others reminds me every day why I am staying stopped and also helps me forget about me alone.
Hope you all continue to do well! Work calls!
September 17th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
PS Bet–I think I burned the bridge with him. Eventhough he knows me better than anyone else in the world we have gone through the break-up make-up thing more than a few times, always at my whim unfortunately. I also had a slew of emails I sent him during the last year and a half when I was at my worst which could NOT have been helpful! I would get drunk and write all sorts of things and he came to a point where he knew I was drunk (luckily I usually did it on weekends) and he just never replied after a while. I am hoping that perhaps if it is meant to be the period I am going now without contacting him will prompt him to contact me. I cannot chase him now as he knows I miss him and I know he needs to make the decision and I am not holding my breath.
September 17th, 2008 at 2:03 pm
FH, I’m going to say to you what I said to my Niece when she was heartbroken after a long term relationship, While you are both in the same world, both still alive there is always hope, life really is strange! I hold onto that thought also.
September 17th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Bet thanks for the words. It is odd because I started dating him 8 years ago, almost 9 and he was much younger than me and my reservations were not based on his age or our age difference but on other people’s judgements. We were engaged at one point and I broke it off (in a drunk state though I was far from drinking like I did the last two years). Time and again we have found our way back to each other, once after three years of no contact but previously it was always just months of no contact between getting back together. I did the mature thing and made him date others which I needed to feel like he was ready to commit to me and I can honestly say it hurt a lot then but nothing has hurt like the last two years. This, for me, is especially true as all the reasons I came to USA from Europe have disappeared and I am not particularly happy here but as I bought property am rather stuck for the time being. I feel like I left him “in vain”.
I do believe like you do and if it is truly meant he will find me. I always have believed that I have walked through everything in life for a reason and in my life I have always experienced that as bad as things are they take me to where I need to be when I need to be there. I have issues with “God” but not with fate as I feel there are “guiding energies”.
Anyway Bet again thanks and I hope your niece is ok! I think you should encourage her to share or at least read some of our posts!
September 17th, 2008 at 9:50 pm
hi everyone
Well day 5, I’m sorry to say but I have had a drink! I am writing this now but before the drink I thought to myself ‘no-one will know’. Basically today I went out with my friend shopping, which doesn’t happen very often and had such a great day that I felt elated, I thought bloody hell I would really like to celebrate (she is going out on the town tonight and I can’t cos of my little one) so I bought one bottle of wine. I have drank that and the reason I am now posting is because I have nothing left, let me tell you - if I had any more drink in the house I would not be posting this. fact is I have a bottle ad i want more! Also I am going to say now that tomorrow I will be going out drinking.o
Any way thought I would own up, BET i know you are on day 4, i thought that since I’ve had some time off drinking might feel different - like more controlled - it doesn’t. I haven’t drank too much and I know I am not going to have a hangover but had kudzu and so feel more pissed than what I usually would after one bottle but still want more.
Anywasy, not going to beat myself up cos my mother is coming on sunday for a week! if you think we are bad, you need to meet my mother (and I mean every single person that has ever posted). so definetly no alcohol while she is here and no willpower required, seeing her pissed gives me the willpower.
Anyway, you have been so supportive and sorry to be the bearer of bad news ( i was going to say sorry to let everyone down, but lets face it the onlhy person I have let down is me ) but all the same it sort of felt as if we were in it together and now I have f**ked it up, so soz but hey back after tomorrow…lol.
I’m like this after one bottle, can’t imagine what i’m like aftedr 2
September 17th, 2008 at 10:20 pm
going to bed now, really wish I hadn’t had a drink, feel sooo pissed off with myself, these last few nights have been much better despite feeling if there was something missing, now i am going to wake up tomorrow and feel bad not hungover but yet again proved what a waste of space I am - WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME!
September 18th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Sally you are not a waste of space. It is something you did because you needed to see it was not going to change. Look at me, I started rehab in my teens and it took me multiple tries and bottoms to finally decide enough was enough. AND even now I still do not want to say I am “forever” giving it up because I KNOW the nature of this disease is one that creeps up on us. It is like we punish ourselves for feeling good (suddenly all is going well and we say—wow I feel so good may as well have a drink like everyone else–next we now we are staring at the bottom of our last bottle no matter how many we have around and if we are still standing wonder where we can get some more and start to think about more! If we are sad, happy, lonely, angry, tired, etc! This is a real disease and the fact is the reason I will never say I will never again drink is because it is complete nonsense if I say it as I have a disease that, perhaps not today, or tomorrow, or even next week or month, but one day will catch me off guard and I will be right where you are.
This is what I think is dangerous about AA is that people KILL themselves because like you they feel as if they “let people down” and cannot face the shame etc. Here nobody should be let down least of all you. You made an honest effort and achieved 4 days. Next week you may do better and if you do not there is the week after. Let yourself be human and make mistakes.
You can do this at your own time and pace and when you are ready it will happen. I never thought 42 days without drinking was possible for me yet on Thursday (today or tomorrow depending where you are) I will have 42 days with NO drink. Luckily I have not felt so great and elated yet that I have had the moment as I am still reeling from the valium withdrawal and I also have remained petrified of alcohol which has helped me immensely—someone once told me that in life some fear is good, it protects us, and I know today I am scared enough that drinking is just not an option for me. Everyone will get there for one reason or another and as I always say, I wish I could have submitted a webcast of my drunks so others could really see how bad I was. We are talking about 7am and drinking and the next day all day, and all day for 3-8 days at a time. Always benders rarely, bar a short period I seemd to be getting better, was it just an odd night out.
I believe in everyone that wants to stop and I believe we are all good people and I know the feelings of worthlessness that haunt us all and we are not who we are when we drink and we need to accept this and understand it is no different than if we went to visit someone doped up on morphine due to a serious illness. This is, in my opinion, a biological malfunction. We just have to all hope the cure comes soon and I for one am going to do all I can to find this as I too want to be able to have a drink on social occassions, go out on New Year’s and party without worrying I will overdo it or having to sit on the sidelines!
September 18th, 2008 at 5:09 am
Sally, I wasnt insulted when you said to dump my bf. i like when i hear those things because it makes me hear from others that i must do it. Do NOT be upset with yourself for more than an a a half hour. I did the same thing as u recently where I took about four days off and then drank . when i drank i thought i would just have the one bottle and start the next day af again. nope. didnt happen. the next day i felt like shit, and its much harder to pick yourself back up again after that type of thing. but please dont feel bad. i couldnt start for maybe two weeks after that. that is where i am now. im on day three at night. but heres the thing-i am taking antabuse. and now im taking it correctly. why dont you give it a try? i know ur thinking, ‘welwhat if i take a drink on it” but you just know you cant. its a damn lifesaveer for me. after a few weeks i noticed i felt i could PROBABLy do it with willpower. but those first few weeks are very hard for me. well maybe the first two. i am a very depressed, life sucks kind of person , so when i want to start this, if i wasnt taking the antabuse i would do it for a day or two and then just say, AH life sux anyway, who CARES. plus im 26, plus i have an alcoholic bf that always wants to drink so it would be hard without the antabuse.
Bet, how old is your neice? it amazes me how many alcoholics i talk to on here and mywayout share that half or more of their family have alcohol problems. what is your neices story? when did it start? i cant believe she has to wait for rehab. yes as hopeless says, if u live in the us and u have insurnace you can go right to rehab. keep up the good work yourself, and let me know how old your neice is.
hopeless, your words are so comforting and i need to hear what you say. its great to see how well everythigns going with your drinking. your very intelligent. the key is for us to remember the bad things about drinking, not that high we feel when we drink, which really isnt there to much now. its mostly hell and misery. but yet we still think of a good feeling when we think of alcohol and drinking. why! but your smart and doing it all right. you are proof that we can do this. even those who are hardcore drinkers like you said you were.
Im on day 3. pm, going to bed soon. but i dread it since i dont sleep and toss and turn in my twin uncomfy bed. BUT i did buy a full size bed today. yay! now that im not drinking i know i will save money to buy some things. g’nite friends
September 18th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Jen you will save a lot of money! I noticed that immediately. I have a service that delivers alcohol near my house and I was (when binging) calling them almost daily for my supply. Some weeks it was like 15 plus bottles of wine, plus tip etc so it adds up. Even just going to the store same thing.
Just one thing Jen that is interesting—my father drinks and had a problem but other than he “goes over” social guidelines I would not say he has a true chemical problem. He will drink wine with dinner and gulp down 2-3 glasses—then stop. He did recount compulsive drinking and cocaine use when he was younger but told me that one day he was so drunk he went to his office and fell asleep under his desk and vomitted and after that said he would never drink again as his secretary was banging on the door which is what woke him. He always thought of my drinking as weakness as he was really able to stop with willpower and I was not. The difference was that I was a chemical alcoholic and he was just a compulsive drinker. My sister is much like my father. It shows that some traits are inherited and, for me, Obsessive Compulsive is a major one that is on both sides of my family as well as depression.
As the oldest my mother and father fought horribly and my mother used me as a crutch and a go-between which profoundly impacted me. My father was also a very angry person (still is) and my mother a very unhappy person (still is) and they both abused my sister and I physically and emotionally though my sister was somehow a lot tougher than me on the outside and never gave in to my parents. The physical abuse was not severe but was severe enough that I would classify it as abuse and the emotional abuse was terrible.
In the end I stopped talking to them for a long time after I got “sober” for my big 1.5 years and never really resumed a normal relationship. MY SISTER stayed and did as they wanted and at one point was hospitalised for severe depression that was so untreatable she ended up getting shock treatments. I think my problem was that I imploded and my sister exploded. I think for many women especially, implosion is how we cope with hurt etc. rather than explosion.
My point is that chronic drinking took my body physically to the same place a person with alcoholic relatives is. So my theory honestly is based on the THIQ hypothesis of alcohol addiction. THIQ is a morphine like substance ONLY found in the brains of alcoholics NOT ever found in social drinkers. If you google it you can learn more. The point being that I have always held to the belief that there are two types of alcoholics, there are genetic alcoholics with a predisposition to creating THIQ from alcohol metabolism and as such drinking will set off these events sooner or later no matter what. Then there are those, who for social and psychological reasons, drink far too much and in the end we too convert alcohol (actually we ALL convert the acetaldehyde) to THIQ. THIQ never leaves the brain once formed and it plugs up the endorphin receptors so as soon as we drink we feel “normal” and our body tells us to keep drinking. Without drink we feel like something is missing, empty and depressed.
This is where Naltrexone and acomprosate have come in to use among more progressive treatment facilities (there are now many) who treat alcoholics without AA and rather treat the problem based on the brain chemistry and the idea that alcohlism is a disease of biochemistry and as such needs to be dealt with on this level. Some facilities actually recommend you actively drink and administer either shots or pills of Naltrexone which in turn block the endorphin rush and make drinking just something you do and does not overly reward your brain. The theory behind it is to lead you to a place where you voluntarily give it up, or you become a moderate drinker over 3 months. Naltrexone has many side effects though so some facilities recommend taking a pill ONLY before you enter a drinking situation. (I am fascinated by this method and am looking to try it aftera few months but may wait as I would prefer a more natural approach).
As you all know I am actively looking for this “brain/body” cure and have been sifting through massive amounts of reading. I came across the most promising thing yet last night. They have now derived a new drug from Naltrexone which much more specifically targets the alcoholic brain and works on blocking the pleasurable effects of alcohol with no or few side effects. It is called SoRI-9409. This is just days ago that any data was released. I am following up and trying to find out if they are doing any clinical trial! I will let you all know.
Anyway my whole point is that I do believe that this is not only a disease, but this is also a disease with many symptoms, including depression, mood disorders, etc. ALL related to brain chemistry issues. So do not blame yourself for relapsing as it takes massive fear (where I am now) or something devastating to shock us into voluntary abstinence. TRUST me when I say, my job is going awful and 6 weeks ago I may have drank myself into oblivion, the only thing now standing between me and a bottle is fear and being plain old stubborn. My goals are also helping as I am actively doing something I feel is meant to help me and others so I keep my eye on that!
Luck to everyone and Sally get back up there!
September 18th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Hi Girls, (we do all seem to be girls on here),
Firstly am on day 5 and I can’t believe it, I dont remember for many many years EVER going 5 days in a row without a drink, 2 or 3 never 5, maybe its like FH says, “fear” as I so dont want to be crying and in such a state as I was on Sunday, I couldn’t even sit down and relax, just paced up and down all day crying with the cat following me till she was worn out, I wish i could report that I feel better, I don’t, I have had headaches and just feel really tired, in one sense I’m glad as I know I would have had a drink if I’d felt energised and pleased with myself, (have avoided any social situations), today again was a struggle as the alkie me in my head kept saying, if you have just a couple the headache will go and you will feel so much better, no doubt i would, but then I would be back to square one and facing work (already I am bargining with myself, Ive got sunday night off and not working monday, you guys know what I am thinking)! I still have that something missing feeling, and nothing to look forward to, just disapointment, how crazy is that.
Sally dont feel sorry or guilty, just a wheel has come off your wagon, you can put it back on, you can and will get going again.
Jen you asked about my niece, shes 35, she rang me today, they have offered her rehab in 2 weeks time, she will only be in for 2 weeks, but she will go through what FH had to do on her own, If we had gone privately (the only other way) it would cost about £500+ a week, which we just cant afford.
All this has come about since January, but has been going on for an awful lot longer before this, she just kept quiet about it. she was arrested for drinking and driving (ironically on her way to an AA meeting) and lost her licence, her job went next, and her ex has had to take thier child (they were sharing her upbringing), she has lost so much weight she looks terrible, its been 9 months of backwards and forwards to doctors and hospitals, I could go on and on. I totally agree with you FH re AA but at the time thats the only help we could get, but even they became tired of her, the attitude is abstain, but if in heavens name she could she wouldn’t need help, some of them were very good to her and even picked her up to go to meetings even if she didnt want to go.
I have tried to get her to read these posts, the girl is so confused she cant concentrate on anything for long, anyway I am thrilled that at last we are getting somewhere, i truely believe unless she gets dried out now she wont make Christmas.
FH, as usual your posts are brilliant, I am so interested in the THIQ item, also the Naltrexone pill, I think I read about this a few months ago in the Daily Mail, I also mentioned it to my nieces councellor, she also suggested antibuse, the only problem with that is you have to take it yourself, although I have read that you can have implants. but I like the idea of blocking out the feeling alcohol gives you, antibuse scares me a bit.
So girls onwards and upwards, am going to watch desperate housewives (i taped it), take my book and the cat to bed early, how sad am I!
Thanks for all your ears, we are all obviously good people on here so why is this happening to us. Much love to you all x
September 18th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Bet your niece sounds JUST like me. August last year, 2007, I was arrested for drink driving, thrown in a horrible jail with my bikini on (that is actually what brought me to this site if I recall correctly-as 2007-2008 has been quite a blur). I was orficed searched twice in front of cheering lesbians (I am not the least homophobic but jailhouse lesbians are a different breed!). In addition I was terrified, lied to by the police who told me no need to bond myself out and that I would be out in 8 hours-two days later a friend finally bailed me out!
It took almost a year to go to trial and in April, 7500 dollars (about 4k UK pounds) later I was miraculously found not guilty. The only really good thing that has happened to me since 2006-other than sticking to my abstinence plan now!
I had got so low due to losing the love of my life and being in a place I really do not connect to and feeling like I have made a horrible mistake. At the same time I lost a job on New Year’s Eve day–YES–while I had friends from UK and Europe over-was a great New Year’s Eve—NOT!. This also was a result of a drunken email to a client. This job was easy as pie and was guaranteed steady income–something I have yet to make this year! I subsequently have had to get a US lawyer to sue to get commissions owed to me, still pending and still paying an arm and leg not knowing whether I will get these monies. Then I had a neighbour call an ambulance thinking I was dead and I ended up being sectioned (committed) to a hospital against my will after having my stomach pumped. So Bet get your niece on here as I know all too well what she is going through and tell her I too was a daily drinker–two BIG bottles of wine a day (I think a full gallon sized) and I detoxed myself and like you Bet I recall the first days pacing and crying and feeling awful and being so sad and feeling my life was so worthless that I was ready to die.
I can honestly relate to her suffering so much! The key is not just stopping it is getting over the hump of stopping and starting to feel like there is hope and having something that you want to accomplish during your abstinence period.
Bet–antabuse is a deterrent NOT anything that works on the actual brain. Naltrexone and acomprosate work but the proponderence of evidence is that Naltrexone works better and further it even works on people actively drinking. I would highly recommend you see if you can get an NHS doctor to write your niece a prescription whilst she waits these two weeks out. One 50mg tablet a day is all she needs. I am not sure, as I have no personal experience, how well this works but there is a lot of research that shows it not only works well, but also that it works best in active drinkers. By the time she is ready for a detox she may well have cut down significantly on her own which will lessen the severity of the detox! I truly believe our “need” for alcohol is down to THIQ and as such I do think an opiate agonist, what Naltrexone is (or antidote against the high and subsequent compulsion to continue) is a very feasible treatment adjunct. It may well be part of the actual cure for some if not all. You can also get implants of it and have once monthly shots. There are side effects but until SoRI-9409 is released I see no option for active drinkers at present.
In any event Bet, always remember the feelings that are bad not good. Fear is healthy in this case! You are doing great! As also stated, get your niece in here and you can even give her my private email if she does not want to post or just wants someone else to interact with. This is a horrible thing to go through, alone OR with anyone but worst of all, alone! (I know the latter as I did it!).
September 19th, 2008 at 6:53 am
Hey guys, gonna make this quick because im beat. not sleeping due to my insomnia which i always have, but now next to a train its bad. i havent been feeling as happy because im not taking zoloft. likethe last time i stoppped for awhile i was taking zoloft im sure i need an antidepressant bc im depresse, buti hate the fact of getting hooked on them and having to come off themand go through withdrawels -eventually they lose effictiveness. hopeless, totally believe exactly what you said about the THIQ theory. Ive read sooo much, talked to soo many people with this disease, and i truly believe exactly what you wrote. that non genetic people end up forming it-JUST like my bf. i watched the difference between us but he is now getting to where i am with alcohol. much slower, because he def did not have it in his family. but chose to drink very often. anyway, im so tired. good job bet, im on day four tonight.. keep up the good work! i wil probably end up going on zoloft again soon, just bc i obviousally need something.
September 19th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Jen I am like your ex. I used it to self-medicate and numb me from a lot of pain in my family life growing up and issues with my family I had to come to terms with. It was when I left my parents home I really got out of control as for the first time I was able to look back and see all the hurt and issues in black and white so to speak. During that year my drinking went from choice to need as I drank myself into oblivion. It was really weird because my body truly resisted addiction to alcohol. I was already drinking 2 bottles of Vodka a day when I went home for holidays to my parents and yet I could just “stop”. There were no withdrawals, no desire I just stopped. It was not until I continued that another 4 months did I end up physically addicted because I was drinking so much there was no way around it. BUT during this time it was still take it or leave it until the very end. I kept choosing to take it until it was too late.
Then I meet people and have friends who would take their first drink and automatically would keep drinking. They almost always tell me their mother or father drink and seem all to have it in their family.
BTW Jen depression fits in to the THIQ theory as well! I am also a depressive person and this does run in my family as does OCD. I also suffer from horrible insomnia since I was 5 years old!
Congratulations Jen and all of you who are trying to or staying clean! Bet you also and Sally I am sure you are back up there preparing for your mother’s visit!
Jen have you thought of going on a non-SSRI? Elavil (amitriptyline) is a tricyclic anti-depressant and also causes drowsiness before bedtime as does desyrel. They do have less side effects. I took Remeron for sleep but I got huge and I am genetically thin with a high metabolism. It literally would enable me to sleep 16+ hours a day and then I would sit around and eat as it makes you crave carbs especially. The end result was a lot of weight gain I personally ignored until I was with a friend who turned to me and told me my thighs were HUGE—and compared me to a fat friend of ours—at which point I got off the Remeron and went on a diet!
September 19th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Hi to you all.
Sadly I have given in, was day 6 today I haven’t gotten that far in years. but I am not going to give up giving up, I just worked a very long day, came home to an empty house. felt a bit lonely, felt a bit sorry for myself, it was on my mind hours before I came home and I kept talking myself out of it, but got home and then went out again and got a bottle (just one).
Hey ho, just hope like hell that I don’t feel like hell in the morning, we are all human, maybe thats the problem!!!
FH read your post, and thank you so much for your support and kind words, my niece has problems with her computer at the moment, I am going to try and get a friend to look at it for her, in the meantime I am going to print some of the posts on here and send them to her, we live about 45 minutes drive away from each other and she cant drive anymore well not for the next 3 years
anyway, going to sign off now, feel pissed off with myself.
love to all
September 20th, 2008 at 8:56 am
hi all
back again after my blow out, suppose I could say i am on day 2 again because last night couldn’t drink as so hungover but hey ho will try again. Mother is arriving tomorrow so definitely won’t be drinking all next week. I can’t remember who posted about the book ‘drink less mind’ but got mine through and started to read it last night. On first sight I reckon I’m going to like the book because it seems all about controlling those voices in are head which make us give in, so if i come across any pearls of wisdom I will share.
Bet you did so well to get to day 6, at least we both managed to get passed the day 3 mark so we know we can do it, I’m think that is part of the reason why I had a drink cos I had a least proved that to myself. Felt so rough yesterday that I am gladly going to try again.
Jen, you are really doing well its just a shame you can’t enjoy having a good night sleep, is there nothing out there that will help you?
FH very interesting stuff about this new drug, i’m going to look it up today - my thing is though that I want that drunk feeling so I don’t know whether it would just make me keep drinking to try and get it.
Anyway going to shoot off now, have a good day everyone
Sal x
September 20th, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Hi Sally and Bet and ALL-
Bet sorry I mixed you up with Sally for the mother’s visit! Sally good luck to you on that! Neither of you have reason to feel ashamed, a day is better than nothing.
Jen as I also suffer severe insomnia I will tell you honestly if you can get a tricyclic antidepressant it may be better than trying anything else. There are side effects and I personally have taken all known antidepressants to no true avail but for the remeron that gave me amazing sleep! BUT I did get fat, and also had weird immune system issues on it. Elavil (amitriptyline) gave me night sweats, dry mouth, weird dreams and sore throats. I have been on SSRI’s, MAO’s and Tricyclics and find for sedation, except for Remeron, the tricyclic’s are the best.
Remeron is amazing and was not even in the SSRI class but was known as an NaSSA or noradrenergic and selective serotonergic antidepressant. This is different than the SSRI’s (which stands for selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors). You get no withdrawal coming off Remeron (mirtazapine) and other than getting hungry and eating non-stop as well as having a slowed metabolism and the ability to sleep for most of a day, there are few side effects (I did get some immune system issues like odd sores on my back and increased infections). But this one beats the teeth clenching, sweating, palpitations when coming off, effects of SSRI’s. I hated SSRI’s! Other than that Jen if you want to go more natural, I am a SEVER insomniac and found l-tryptophan, melatonin and some benadryl (or generic) puts me to sleep pretty good though I still do wake at least once.
Sally you are opposite me really. I DO want to feel a “buzz” but not drunk. What happens to me is I will feel a buzz and then I lose all control and have to keep going and even feel like I am “me” deep inside and can have rational conversations with myself but my body is on autopilot. I would do anything to stop that feeling as it is what gets me going and once I have the feeling then it takes me a good “detox” to not have that feeling. Before this I always would go back to drinking thinking I could control it but always ended up in the same place. Now I am completely abstinent but if this drug took that feeling I get after a certain amount of drinks away (an inexplicable surge of endorphins that makes me feel like nothing matters and everything is perfect etc) then I would never do more than just catch a little buzz and be happy with that.
I do want to try it at some point but for now I want to let my body and mind heal, deal with a lot of psychological issues with normal coping skills not alcohol, and sort my life out more before I use alcohol in any form, let alone in an experiment like this. I have to be in exactly the right place, and preferably being monitored so I am accountable, so if it does not work I do not go back to my cycle of drinking again. The newer drug is NOT near being marketed but if I used the Naltrexone as described by Sinclair (the American doctor in Finland) and take it ONLY when I enter a drinking situation, the chances of major adverse effects are minimal–assuming it works at all on me. So I will do as much healing and homeopathic healing as well as hopefully starting with an acupuncturist soon and Eastern Medicine specialist, that IF I get to a point I want to try Naltrexone I will have a lot of other reinforcements behind me and at my disposal!
OK all wish you all the best and hope that you have really nice Saturday’s! I will check in later as I am off to the beach now!
September 20th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Hey guys. Im on day 6 AF. ya the sleeping thing sux.. and unfortunately Hopeless, I would and have taken elavil and trazadone. I forget if trazadone causes weight gain ( gonna look that up now actually )but the elavil certaintly does. Remeron as well obviousally. but you gave me an idea for those again, im going to look into the ones that might not cause weight gain such as desyryl. I am big on no weight gain, and am trying to lose five to ten pounds while being AF. When i lose the weight, I may try something and see, but right now i dont want to take any chances since when im AF its pretty much the only time i have a chance to lose some weight. when im drinking , even if its twice a week, i end up going out to fridays or other bar/food places and pigging out on loads of french fries and burgers, just not caring because i would be drinking at the same time and ya know how alcohol makes you feel like, “ah who cares if im pigging out and gain weight”. Not that its not ok to pig out occasionally. but i pig out wayto much when im drinking. so im using this period to lose some weight as well. its tough not sleeping and tryign to stay AF ( have to anyway bc im on antabuse!) with this and not pigging out on food. because when ur so sleepy, you tend to just grab whatever food is there and shove it down your throat. thats why they say that people who arent sleeping well gain weight. but if i stick to my diet ( not much of a diet-just not pigging out) and im not sleeping well, i always notice that i lose weight quicker, because its like im up so often during the night and up earlie